Legislature(1993 - 1994)
05/07/1993 06:00 PM House FIN
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
MAY 7, 1993
6:00 P.M.
TAPE HFC 93 - 131, Side 2, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 93 - 132, Side 1, #000 - #469.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Ron Larson called the meeting of the House Finance
Committee to order at 6:00 P.M.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Larson Representative Brown
Co-Chair MacLean Representative Foster
Vice-Chair Hanley Representative Grussendorf
Representative THerriault Representative Martin
Representative Navarre Representative Parnell
Representative Hoffman was not present for the vote.
ALSO PRESENT
Representative Jim Nordlund; Representative Carl Moses;
Representative Cynthia Toohey; Representative Cliff
Davidson; Representative Fran Ulmer; Paul Fuhs,
Commissioner, Department of Commerce and Economic
Development; John Hansen, Jr., Gaming Manager, Division of
Occupational Licensing, Department of Commerce and Economic
Development.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
HB 168 An Act relating to multiple-beneficiary charitable
gaming permits and door prizes for charitable
gaming; and providing for an effective date.
CS HB 168 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with
"no recommendation" and with a fiscal note by the
Department of Commerce and Economic Development.
HOUSE BILL 168
"An Act relating to multiple-beneficiary charitable
gaming permits and door prizes for charitable gaming;
and providing for an effective date."
Representative Hanley MOVED the work draft #8-LS0674\I for
CS HB 168 (FIN) dated 5/07/93 be the version before the
Committee. Representative Martin OBJECTED noting for the
1
record that he disapproved of "opening-up" gambling in
Alaska. Representative Martin WITHDREW his OBJECTION.
There being NO FURTHER OBJECTIONS, the draft was adopted.
Representative Brown MOVED a change to Page 3, Line 1,
deleting "charitable gaming activity" and inserting "bingo
or pull tab game". She pointed out this language would
conform with Page 9, Lines 12 & 13. There being NO
OBJECTIONS, it was so ordered.
JOHN HANSEN, GAMING MANAGER, DIVISION OF OCCUPATIONAL
LICENSING, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,
provided the Committee with a brief history of gaming in
response to questions asked by Representative Martin. Mr.
Hansen stated in 1984, the regulations were expanded on the
games of chance and skill under "special raffles" to include
pull tabs. By regulation in 1984, the Department of Revenue
allowed the sale of pull tabs which continued until 1988
when the regulation changed into statute. In 1988, pull
tabs became legalized.
Representative Martin MOVED Amendment #1. [Attachment #1].
Representative Brown asked if the intent of the amendment
was to remove the reference to pull tab in the bill. Mr.
Hansen pointed out the proposed legislation including the
pull tabs would generate ten percent proceeds on all
activities including bingo. Co-Chair Larson OBJECTED to
Amendment #1.
PAUL FUHS, COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT, stated that the net effect of Amendment #1
would reduce the $16 million dollars generated revenue for
charities to $3 million dollars.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Hanley, Martin, Navarre, Parnell, Brown.
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Therriault, MacLean,
Larson.
Representatives Foster and Hoffman were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION PASSED, (5-4).
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED Amendment #2. [Attachment #2].
Representative Martin OBJECTED. Representative Navarre
pointed out Amendment #2 could not be implemented with the
previous action taken by the Committee on Amendment #1.
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED TO RESCIND action taken on Amendment
2
commented that the Governor does not believe in gambling.
He added, as the law exists charities should benefit
charities. Pull tabs generate 80% of gaming revenue.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Grussendorf, Therriault, Foster, Larson,
MacLean.
OPPOSED: Hanley, Martin, Navarre, Brown.
Representatives Hoffman and Parnell were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION PASSED, (5-4).
A roll call vote was taken on Amendment #1.
IN FAVOR: Hanley, Brown.
OPPOSED: Martin, Navarre, Therriault, Foster,
Grussendorf, MacLean, Larson.
Representatives Hoffman and Parnell were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION FAILED, (2-7).
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED Amendment #2. Representative Martin
OBJECTED.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Navarre, Brown, Foster, Grussendorf,
Larson, MacLean.
OPPOSED: Martin, Parnell, Therriault, Hanley.
Representative Hoffman was not present for the vote.
The MOTION PASSED, (6-4).
Representative Brown provided the Committee with Amendment
prohibit gaming within their districts by a vote. Co-Chair
Larson OBJECTED. Commissioner Fuhs noted the Department
would support the amendment.
Co-Chair MacLean asked if it would be necessary for villages
and municipalities to vote for gaming and pull tabs with the
inclusion of the proposed amendment. Commissioner Fuhs
3
replied, the vote would be necessary only if the Committee
wanted to prohibit gaming from occurring.
Representative Hanley MOVED TO AMEND the amendment and
change the number of registered voters from 35% to 10%. Co-
Chair Larson OBJECTED.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Martin, Navarre, Parnell, Therriault,
Brown, Hanley, MacLean.
OPPOSED: Foster, Grussendorf, Larson.
Representative Hoffman was not present for the vote.
The MOTION PASSED, (7-3).
Amendment #3 was once again before the Committee. There
being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Brown WITHDREW AMENDMENT #4. [Attachment
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #5. [Attachment #5].
The amendment would increase the annual fee for a pull tab
manufactures license from $500 to $2.5 thousand dollars.
She added, that amount is closer to the national average.
Commissioner Fuhs stated there are only ten manufactures in
the United States and that $2.5 thousand dollars would be
amongst the highest rate charged. Representative Martin
OBJECTED to the amendment.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Navarre, Parnell, Therriault, Brown,
Grussendorf, Hanley.
OPPOSED: Foster, Martin, Larson, MacLean.
Representative Hoffman was not present for the vote.
The MOTION PASSED, (6-4).
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #6. [Attachment #6].
The amendment would increase the age to play bingo or pull
tab games from 19 to 21 years. Commissioner Fuhs replied,
the Department would support the amendment. Representative
Grussendorf pointed out that bingo is a family activity in
many of the smaller communities and the proposed change
could eliminate that. Representative Brown MOVED TO AMEND
Amendment #6 changing the language to cover "pull tabs" only
4
which would continue to allow bingo and raffles.
Representative Brown MOVED the language change. There being
NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #7. [Attachment #7].
She explained the amendment would provide protection to
consumers when purchasing pull tabs. Commissioner Fuhs
explained the amendment would be unnecessary as that
information is already required on the flyer cards.
(Tape Change, HFC 93-132, Side 1).
Representative Brown WITHDREW Amendment #7. There being NO
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #8. [Attachment #8].
REPRESENTATIVE JIM NORDLUND explained that Amendment #8
would require a bond be posted when selling pull tabs.
Commissioner Fuhs explained there could be no way for a
customer to make a claim against a bar for selling pull tabs
and not advertising them. Representative Brown WITHDREW
Amendment #8. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #9 which would limit
the number to five permittees who could contract with a
vendor for the sale of pull tabs. [Attachment #9]. Mr.
Hansen stated is limitation was addressed in SB 6 which
limited the amount of locations a permittee could use.
Representative Nordlund thought Amendment #10 would address
the Department's concern stating there could be
consolidation of permittees either way. Representative
Brown WITHDREW Amendment #9. There being NO OBJECTION, it
was so ordered.
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #10. Commissioner Fuhs
noted the Department would support the amendment. There
being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.
Commissioner Fuhs urged the Committee to support the
legislation so that there could be further regulatory powers
to insure that the charities benefit from the program.
Representative Martin disagreed. He emphasized that the
legislation would make gambling "wide-open" in the name of
charity.
REPRESENTATIVE CLIFF DAVIDSON questioned why the Department
feels that the legislation does not represent an expansion
of the pull tab business. Commissioner Fuhs replied, the
legislation would not authorize any additional locations.
Representative Davidson asked if a saturation point had been
5
reached for pull tabs in the State. Commissioner Fuhs
stated the bill will not affect the saturation point.
Currently, pulls tabs can exist in any location. He added,
with paying 70% of the profit up-front, the profitability
becomes marginal for the operations.
Co-Chair Larson MOVED Amendment #11, [Attachment #11] which
would make a title language. There being NO OBJECTION, it
was adopted.
Representative Brown MOVED a language change to Page 7, Line
19 deleting "quarter" and inserting "annual". Mr. Hansen
stated under current law, operators are required to pay 15%
of the adjusted gross income for no less than two
consecutive quarters. The current law allows that the
operators would be allowed to pay 7.5% on an annual basis
and not be out of compliance. Commissioner Fuhs pointed out
the existing bill contained a major loophole and the current
law corrects that problem. He added there are seasonal
changes making payment more difficult for some operators.
Representative Brown MOVED the change which would read
"...pay to each authorizing permittee at least 30% percent
annually...". Representative Martin OBJECTED.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Therriault, Brown, Foster, Grussendorf.
OPPOSED: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Larson,
MacLean.
Representatives Hoffman and Navarre were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION FAILED, (4-5).
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to report CS HB 168 (FIN) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal note. Representative Brown MOVED
increasing the fiscal note to match the amount the House
Finance Committee added to the budget. She stated $381
thousand dollars had been added to support auditing and
enforcement of the legislation. Co-Chair Larson noted the
House portion of the budget includes three investigators to
the Department of Administration. Representative Martin
stressed his dissatisfaction with the basic concept of the
legislation. There being NO OBJECTION to moving the bill,
it was so ordered.
CS HB 168 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no
recommendation" and with a new fiscal note by the Department
6
of Commerce and Economic Development.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 7:25 P.M.
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
MAY 7, 1993
6:00 P.M.
TAPE HFC 93 - 131, Side 2, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 93 - 132, Side 1, #000 - #469.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Ron Larson called the meeting of the House Finance
Committee to order at 6:00 P.M.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Larson Representative Brown
Co-Chair MacLean Representative Foster
Vice-Chair Hanley Representative Grussendorf
Representative THerriault Representative Martin
Representative Navarre Representative Parnell
Representative Hoffman was not present for the vote.
ALSO PRESENT
Representative Jim Nordlund; Representative Carl Moses;
Representative Cynthia Toohey; Representative Cliff
Davidson; Representative Fran Ulmer; Paul Fuhs,
Commissioner, Department of Commerce and Economic
Development; John Hansen, Jr., Gaming Manager, Division of
Occupational Licensing, Department of Commerce and Economic
Development.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
HB 168 An Act relating to multiple-beneficiary charitable
gaming permits and door prizes for charitable
gaming; and providing for an effective date.
CS HB 168 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with
"no recommendation" and with a fiscal note by the
Department of Commerce and Economic Development.
HOUSE BILL 168
"An Act relating to multiple-beneficiary charitable
7
gaming permits and door prizes for charitable gaming;
and providing for an effective date."
Representative Hanley MOVED the work draft #8-LS0674\I for
CS HB 168 (FIN) dated 5/07/93 be the version before the
Committee. Representative Martin OBJECTED noting for the
record that he disapproved of "opening-up" gambling in
Alaska. Representative Martin WITHDREW his OBJECTION.
There being NO FURTHER OBJECTIONS, the draft was adopted.
Representative Brown MOVED a change to Page 3, Line 1,
deleting "charitable gaming activity" and inserting "bingo
or pull tab game". She pointed out this language would
conform with Page 9, Lines 12 & 13. There being NO
OBJECTIONS, it was so ordered.
JOHN HANSEN, GAMING MANAGER, DIVISION OF OCCUPATIONAL
LICENSING, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,
provided the Committee with a brief history of gaming in
response to questions asked by Representative Martin. Mr.
Hansen stated in 1984, the regulations were expanded on the
games of chance and skill under "special raffles" to include
pull tabs. By regulation in 1984, the Department of Revenue
allowed the sale of pull tabs which continued until 1988
when the regulation changed into statute. In 1988, pull
tabs became legalized.
Representative Martin MOVED Amendment #1. [Attachment #1].
Representative Brown asked if the intent of the amendment
was to remove the reference to pull tab in the bill. Mr.
Hansen pointed out the proposed legislation including the
pull tabs would generate ten percent proceeds on all
activities including bingo. Co-Chair Larson OBJECTED to
Amendment #1.
PAUL FUHS, COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT, stated that the net effect of Amendment #1
would reduce the $16 million dollars generated revenue for
charities to $3 million dollars.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Hanley, Martin, Navarre, Parnell, Brown.
OPPOSED: Grussendorf, Therriault, MacLean,
Larson.
Representatives Foster and Hoffman were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION PASSED, (5-4).
8
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED Amendment #2. [Attachment #2].
Representative Martin OBJECTED. Representative Navarre
pointed out Amendment #2 could not be implemented with the
previous action taken by the Committee on Amendment #1.
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED TO RESCIND action taken on Amendment
commented that the Governor does not believe in gambling.
He added, as the law exists charities should benefit
charities. Pull tabs generate 80% of gaming revenue.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Grussendorf, Therriault, Foster, Larson,
MacLean.
OPPOSED: Hanley, Martin, Navarre, Brown.
Representatives Hoffman and Parnell were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION PASSED, (5-4).
A roll call vote was taken on Amendment #1.
IN FAVOR: Hanley, Brown.
OPPOSED: Martin, Navarre, Therriault, Foster,
Grussendorf, MacLean, Larson.
Representatives Hoffman and Parnell were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION FAILED, (2-7).
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED Amendment #2. Representative Martin
OBJECTED.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Navarre, Brown, Foster, Grussendorf,
Larson, MacLean.
OPPOSED: Martin, Parnell, Therriault, Hanley.
Representative Hoffman was not present for the vote.
The MOTION PASSED, (6-4).
Representative Brown provided the Committee with Amendment
prohibit gaming within their districts by a vote. Co-Chair
9
Larson OBJECTED. Commissioner Fuhs noted the Department
would support the amendment.
Co-Chair MacLean asked if it would be necessary for villages
and municipalities to vote for gaming and pull tabs with the
inclusion of the proposed amendment. Commissioner Fuhs
replied, the vote would be necessary only if the Committee
wanted to prohibit gaming from occurring.
Representative Hanley MOVED TO AMEND the amendment and
change the number of registered voters from 35% to 10%. Co-
Chair Larson OBJECTED.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Martin, Navarre, Parnell, Therriault,
Brown, Hanley, MacLean.
OPPOSED: Foster, Grussendorf, Larson.
Representative Hoffman was not present for the vote.
The MOTION PASSED, (7-3).
Amendment #3 was once again before the Committee. There
being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Brown WITHDREW AMENDMENT #4. [Attachment
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #5. [Attachment #5].
The amendment would increase the annual fee for a pull tab
manufactures license from $500 to $2.5 thousand dollars.
She added, that amount is closer to the national average.
Commissioner Fuhs stated there are only ten manufactures in
the United States and that $2.5 thousand dollars would be
amongst the highest rate charged. Representative Martin
OBJECTED to the amendment.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Navarre, Parnell, Therriault, Brown,
Grussendorf, Hanley.
OPPOSED: Foster, Martin, Larson, MacLean.
Representative Hoffman was not present for the vote.
The MOTION PASSED, (6-4).
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #6. [Attachment #6].
The amendment would increase the age to play bingo or pull
10
tab games from 19 to 21 years. Commissioner Fuhs replied,
the Department would support the amendment. Representative
Grussendorf pointed out that bingo is a family activity in
many of the smaller communities and the proposed change
could eliminate that. Representative Brown MOVED TO AMEND
Amendment #6 changing the language to cover "pull tabs" only
which would continue to allow bingo and raffles.
Representative Brown MOVED the language change. There being
NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #7. [Attachment #7].
She explained the amendment would provide protection to
consumers when purchasing pull tabs. Commissioner Fuhs
explained the amendment would be unnecessary as that
information is already required on the flyer cards.
(Tape Change, HFC 93-132, Side 1).
Representative Brown WITHDREW Amendment #7. There being NO
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #8. [Attachment #8].
REPRESENTATIVE JIM NORDLUND explained that Amendment #8
would require a bond be posted when selling pull tabs.
Commissioner Fuhs explained there could be no way for a
customer to make a claim against a bar for selling pull tabs
and not advertising them. Representative Brown WITHDREW
Amendment #8. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #9 which would limit
the number to five permittees who could contract with a
vendor for the sale of pull tabs. [Attachment #9]. Mr.
Hansen stated is limitation was addressed in SB 6 which
limited the amount of locations a permittee could use.
Representative Nordlund thought Amendment #10 would address
the Department's concern stating there could be
consolidation of permittees either way. Representative
Brown WITHDREW Amendment #9. There being NO OBJECTION, it
was so ordered.
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #10. Commissioner Fuhs
noted the Department would support the amendment. There
being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.
Commissioner Fuhs urged the Committee to support the
legislation so that there could be further regulatory powers
to insure that the charities benefit from the program.
Representative Martin disagreed. He emphasized that the
legislation would make gambling "wide-open" in the name of
charity.
11
REPRESENTATIVE CLIFF DAVIDSON questioned why the Department
feels that the legislation does not represent an expansion
of the pull tab business. Commissioner Fuhs replied, the
legislation would not authorize any additional locations.
Representative Davidson asked if a saturation point had been
reached for pull tabs in the State. Commissioner Fuhs
stated the bill will not affect the saturation point.
Currently, pulls tabs can exist in any location. He added,
with paying 70% of the profit up-front, the profitability
becomes marginal for the operations.
Co-Chair Larson MOVED Amendment #11, [Attachment #11] which
would make a title language. There being NO OBJECTION, it
was adopted.
Representative Brown MOVED a language change to Page 7, Line
19 deleting "quarter" and inserting "annual". Mr. Hansen
stated under current law, operators are required to pay 15%
of the adjusted gross income for no less than two
consecutive quarters. The current law allows that the
operators would be allowed to pay 7.5% on an annual basis
and not be out of compliance. Commissioner Fuhs pointed out
the existing bill contained a major loophole and the current
law corrects that problem. He added there are seasonal
changes making payment more difficult for some operators.
Representative Brown MOVED the change which would read
"...pay to each authorizing permittee at least 30% percent
annually...". Representative Martin OBJECTED.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Therriault, Brown, Foster, Grussendorf.
OPPOSED: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Larson,
MacLean.
Representatives Hoffman and Navarre were not present for the
vote.
The MOTION FAILED, (4-5).
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to report CS HB 168 (FIN) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal note. Representative Brown MOVED
increasing the fiscal note to match the amount the House
Finance Committee added to the budget. She stated $381
thousand dollars had been added to support auditing and
enforcement of the legislation. Co-Chair Larson noted the
House portion of the budget includes three investigators to
the Department of Administration. Representative Martin
12
stressed his dissatisfaction with the basic concept of the
legislation. There being NO OBJECTION to moving the bill,
it was so ordered.
CS HB 168 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no
recommendation" and with a new fiscal note by the Department
of Commerce and Economic Development.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 7:25 P.M.
13
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|